Tuesday, January 19, 2010

Tuition At Various Yeshivas (2009-2010)

Been a bit busy at work, but here's a quick post comparing tuition costs at various yeshivas in the tri-state area. If you believe I missed a yeshiva AND that yeshiva provides it's tuition data online (or you have a copy you can send to me), please email me or indicate such in the comments.

A few notes: I have combined all tuition and fees for each grade so that it's as much of an "apples to apples" comparison as possible.  I have also included the annual per family annual charges and the one time only per family charges.  Some of the schools have difficult to interpret information - I did my best.

BPY = Ben Porat Yosef; Grades 6-8 are To Be Determined, as the school does not go up that high yet. For JEC, "$750 / $300" = there is an annual obligation of $750 per family for 4 years and $300 per family for every subsequent year.  M. Aaron = Moshe Aaron.



BPY

HAFTR

HALB

JEC

JKHA

Moriah

Yavneh
Pre-K
$13,100

$6,175

$7,500

$8,525

$11,225

$12,420

$12,250
K
$14,000

$10,230

$9,300

$10,100

$11,225

$14,080

$13,850
1st
$14,600

$11,590

$9,730

$10,100

$12,225

$14,080

$13,850
2nd
$14,600

$11,590

$9,730

$10,100

$13,835

$14,080

$13,850
3rd
$14,600

$13,400

$11,180

$10,100

$13,835

$14,335

$13,850
4th
$14,600

$13,400

$11,180

$10,500

$13,835

$14,335

$13,850
5th
$14,600

$13,450

$11,180

$10,500

$13,835

$14,335

$13,850
6th
TBD

$15,440

$12,600

$10,500

$15,035

$14,750

$14,525
7th
TBD

$15,440

$12,600

$12,150

$15,035

$14,750

$14,525
8th
TBD

$15,590

$12,600

$12,300

$15,035

$14,900

$14,675
Family (Yearly)
$1,300

$1,800

$2,100

$1,375

$1,060

$1,375

$800
Family (Once)
$7,500

$1,500

$0

$750/$300

$3,200

$7,000

$7,000



Frisch

HAFTR

HALB

JEC

JKHA

Maayanot

M. Aaron
9th
$22,750

$19,950

$17,750

$15,000

$19,925

$20,600

$17,375
10th
$22,750

$21,490

$17,750

$14,600

$19,925

$20,600

$17,375
11th
$22,750

$21,490

$17,750

$14,600

$19,925

$20,600

$17,375
12th
$22,900

$21,590

$17,750

$14,850

$20,225

$20,600

$17,375
Family (Yearly)
$750

$1,800

$2,100

$1,375

$1,060

$625

$750
Family (Once)
$5,000

$1,500

$0

$750/$300

$3,200

$0

$0

What I found most interesting is that there isn't that much of a difference (in most cases) in price between yeshivas regardless of how "fancy" the facilities supposedly are, how "wealthy" the communities supposedly are, or how "superior" the education supposedly is.  Though the biggest differences appear for high school; elementary school is pretty similar across the board.

39 comments:

Honestly Frum said...

The big factor you are missing is facilities costs. HAFTR and HALB have been around for a long time and their buildings are most likely paid off. Ben Porat, Maaanot, and Frisch (Noam also, though it is not listed) all have new buildings that cost big $$ (Noam's building cost $12MM) and it adds significantly to tuition, upwards of about $2000 a year per kid.

Anonymous said...

where is ynj, noam, and JFS?

Honestly Frum said...

Northern NJ

Anonymous said...

YNJ and Noam are in Northern NJ (as HF said above). JFS is in Staten Island.

I wonder if anyone has the numbers for MTA (the YU high school, whatever they call it nowadays).

Mark

Honestly Frum said...

MTA is about $22K

Anonymous said...

This is really great work because it shows some apples-to-apples comparisons.

I would say, however, that there are considerable differences in costs for elementary school. Let's say you have a choice of living in Bergen or Nassau County so for this example, let's say your choice of school is HALB v. Yavneh. Let's also say you have four kids, each two grades behind the previous kid.

At the current rate, tuition at HALB will be $100,100 and Yavneh will be $126,825. You will have kids in the schools for 15 years (from the time the first one is enrolled until the time the last ine graduates) so the family cost for HALB will be 15*2100=$31,500 and for Yavneh it will be 15*800+7000=$19,000. In total for HALB your cost will be ($100,100*4+$31,500=$431,900) while Yavneh will be ($126,825*4+$19,000=$526,300).

So Yavneh is almost $100,000 more. Obviously this ignores future increases and obviously there are other factors taken into consideration when deciding where to live. But if nothing else, this does show that tuition in Bergen County can be considerably more expensive than Nassau County.

Tuition Talk said...

Honestly Frum,

I don't think it's quite that simple as there are plenty of Yeshivas without new facilities that are very expensive.

I believe JKHA moved to its new building in 1996 and is still more expensive than HAFTR/HALB.

Frisch moved to its new building in 2007 and yet has pretty much kept pace with JKHA after the new building.

(By the way, I know that's not definitive - but I don't have other historical data).

I also don't think it explains other schools that are more expensive and have huge building/capital funds.

Tuition Talk said...

In terms of Noam and YNJ - if the school doesn't make the tuition info public there's nothing I can do unless someone (a parent, for example) provides me with the data.

Jewish Foundation School is $6,500 in base tuition and $1,000 for travel if you live in Staten Island and $2,000 for travel if you live in Bergen County.

Yeshiva University High School (MTA) is $21,790 per student for 9-12. Dorming is extra.

Tuition Talk said...

Anonymous,

Didn't understand your numbers at first.

To clarify for those who are slow on the uptake like me, anonymous is saying that the total cost to educate a child from K-8, if tuition stay at its current value is $100,100 at HALB and $126,825 at Yavneh.

Between the time the oldest enters K and the youngest leaves 8th, it's 15 years in the school. It takes 9 years for the oldest to go from K to 8th grade. The youngest is then in 2nd grade. It takes 6 more years for the youngest to be in 8th grade, which is the last year in the school.

So, you're paying 15 years worth of annual family dues, which at HALB will run $31,500 and at Yavneh will run $12,000. Yavneh will also cost you $7,000 in a one time family fee.

So, HALB is $431,900 for the 4 kids and Yavneh is $526,300.

It's interesting, but I don't think it's particularly useful as costs rise significantly over time.

Tuition Talk said...

Anonymous,

I think it's more useful to look at current costs of educating the 4 kids if the oldest is say in 8th grade. So, you have kids in 8th grade, 6th grade, 4th grade, and 2nd grade.

HALB: $46,110 + $2,100
Yavneh: $56,900 + $800

(Assuming Yavneh's $7,000 fee is already paid off by this point)

Anonymous said...

To Tuition Talk:

I wrote the 9:13 comment. Whether you look at it the way I presented it, or if you just take a snapshot like you did at 11:20 am, its expensive either which way. I looked at it over the course of K-8to get a feel for the total cost. True, costs will rise, but assume costs will rise for both schools.

In any case, its clear that Yavneh is considerably more expensive than HALB. In your example, Yavneh is $57,700 vs. $48,210 for HALB for a difference of $9,490, a significant sum. There aren't guarantees that HALB won't be more expensive down than Yavneh down the road, but you can only calculate with figures that you have in front of you right now.

Nevertheless, your exercise is helpful for those who might be interested in getting a feel for comparison. I wouldn't expect someone to choose between Nassau & Bergen counties solely for this reason, but it may tilt the scales.

Tuition Talk said...

Anonymous,

Agreed. While I notes in the post that the prices were a lot closer than I initially thought they would be, when you look at them in the aggregate (having multiple kids in the school), the smallish differences add up to a large difference.

Good point.

Anonymous said...

YNJ is $15,000 including add-ons - more if you have to pay for transportation

PayingParent said...

We are actually making the choice to move to Long Island after witnessing the exorbitant costs of living in Bergen county. Comparing yeshiva bills for our 2 children, we'll be spending about $10,000 less per year by switching to HALB. That is in addition to the savings on transportation which is pretty much a necessity for 2 full time working parents. While I understand that transportation is free in Teaneck, the taxes are higher. In long island, somehow the taxes are lower AND they provide bussing. Lastly, we also noticed that kosher groceries in Teaneck cost alot more than in Long Island. It baffles me how you can have such a large Jewish community and people have to go to Shoprite for their meat, because the one decently sized kosher grocer has no competition and crazy prices.

Tuition Talk said...

PayingParent,

Best of luck in Long Island. Part of solving the tuition problem is people understanding the (limited) data that is out there and voting with their feet.

On another note, I wish I could put compile kosher meat, chicken, and cheese prices from around the tri-state area. The variation in prices is obscene and doesn't seem to have any relation to how many Jews live in the area.

Tuition Talk said...

PayingParent,

Let me know if you'd be interested in putting together a guest post on the information you've compiled and why this option makes sense for you and your family.

PayingParent said...

I'm pretty busy these days, but I will consider it. I'm not sure that I have much more information to give than what it is already known, but I will try.

Anonymous said...

To paying parent:

If you're living in Long Island, do your kosher shopping in Brooklyn. It's worth the schlep. We schlep to Brooklyn from Manhattan every so often.

we need change said...

I never thought I would live to see the day that someone is relocating to long island because it is more affordable. The five towns ! But Bergen County Yeshiva Tuition and Real Estate taxes are insane. However - it seems that HALB is the same price as YNJ and SKA is about the same or a liitle more expensive than Bruriah - How exactly are you saving money ????????

Lion of Zion said...

"The variation in prices is obscene and doesn't seem to have any relation to how many Jews live in the area."

$1.79 for leg quarters and $2.99 for chicken cutlets in bklyn
costco has good deal on cheese

YNJ Tuition said...

Here's YNJ tuition. add it to your table.


'09-'10
$400 security per family
$750 dinner per family for K - 8th
Scrip = $375

Pre-K 9,200 + 850 registration.
K - 5th 11,300 + 950 reg
6th - 8th = I think $12,300 + 950 (my oldest isn't in 6th grade yet)

BUILDING!!!
$8,000 per family(2K year 1, then 1K each year)

PayingParent said...

In response to "we need change", please refer to the YNJ tuition that was posted by a parent above.
I have 2 children, 1 year apart.
If I were to enroll my youngest in Pre-K and my oldest in Kindergarten, I would pay the following for HALB (column 1) and YNJ (column 2)(I included all fees including building and dinner fee):
HALB YNJ DIFF
YR 1 (P/K)= 18,900 25,825 6,925
YR 2 (K/1)= 21,130 26,075 4,945
YR 3 (1/2)= 21,560 26,075 4,515
YR 4 (2/3)= 23,010 26,075 3,065
YR 5 (3/4)= 24,460 26,075 1,615
YR 6 (4/5)= 24,460 26,075 1,615
YR 7 (5/6)= 25,880 27,075 1,195
YR 8 (6/7)= 27,300 27,075 -225
YR 9 (7/8)= 27,300 27,075 -225
As you can see, if tuition remains the same (HA!HA!HA!) we would be paying about 23,425 more over 9 yrs. That may not be alot to some people, but it is to us. An additional consideration is that the disparity seems to be frontloaded. My husband and I are both pretty young. God willing, we should be able to afford more later on then we can now.

Anonymous said...

Maybe its a tangent, but, why the heck is there a $950 registration fee at YNJ? What does this allegedly cover that is not covered elsewhere?

Avi said...

@anon 2:32 - It's simple marketing: unbundling fees hides the true cost of tuition. It is also large enough that it prevents parents from registering in two schools and then actually sending the kid to whichever one is cheaper. Registration is collected months before the school releases the actual tuition bill. So you need to sign over about a thousand dollars before you know whether you'll be able to afford the tuition increase.

It should be noted, though, that last year there RYNJ did not increase tuition at all. The $950 registration fee was already in place and the building fund got stretched out, but tuition was held flat.

Tuition Talk said...

YNJ Tuition,

Thanks. Is this based on your tuition bill? Do you have something you can maybe scan and email to me?

Tuition Talk said...

Every school has a registration fee. It's just another way to obscure what the total cost is per child.

I've heard elsewhere (unverified) that schools do not allow charging those fees to a credit card, only actual tuition and thus save a few percentage points.

Also, the school can collect the many months in advance of the next school year thereby producing an additional revenue stream after most tuition has already been collected from the previous year (so this is revenue when normally nothing would be coming in).

Finally, once you've put that much down per child you're already pretty committed and aren't likely to consider switching to another school with more registration fees.

Anonymous said...

paying parent - i am also a ynj parent and am considering the same thing - but for other reasons

1) real estate taxes are lower in 5 towns than BC

2) access to low cost college in NY State

3) free bussing

4) stronger and more orthodoxly diverse jewish community

Anonymous said...

also for those with a child with a learning disability - NY State is very generous

Anonymous said...

Avi YNJ raised tuition - they just called it a building fund (increased it $2,000) instead of calling it tuition - i think we are all smarter than that and realize that application fees, security fee and all the other stupid fees are just tuition by another name

Anonymous said...

So let me understand this (I don't live in Teaneck, nor are my kids of school age, so pardon my ignorance):

Parents are asked to place down a registration fee many months in advance of the school year beginning without actual knowledge of what the actual tuition will be for the school year? And if it turns out the tuition is too high for your liking you can't pull out and get your money back? There has to be something halachically wrong with this.

Anonymous said...

to anon 7:45

Welcome to Bergen County

Ground Zero for the yeshiva tuition crisis

ProfK said...

Puzzled a bit here. My sister and two nephews own homes in the five towns. Their real estate taxes are $16,800--$16,350--$14,700. This makes 5T cheaper than Bergen County just how?

As was mentioned, JFS in SI has lower tuition than any of the schools listed, a lot lower. Its real estate taxes are in the $3K area. Even adding in NY taxes (and the schools get a lot of services for those taxes which aren't given in NJ), it's lots less expensive to be living in SI than in BC or 5T. Yet, SI to live in is never considered as a possibility. Do we have some "cachet" factor going on here?

Anonymous said...

There's no question that real estate taxes are very low in Staten Island compared with taxes in Nassau or Bergen Counties. Except in Staten Island you have New York City income taxes which are about 3.7%. Do you come out ahead with income taxes and low property taxes or high property taxes and no city income taxes? That depends on your income level.

If let's say real estate taxes in SI are $3,000 and taxes in the burbs are $14,000, you'll probably do better in the city if your income is less than $300,000. Otherwise, you're probably better in the burbs. (this doesn't take into account any other factors, just income & real estate taxes)

Regarding taxes in Nassau County, they are highly variable and depend on which school district you live in (e.g. Lawrence, Woodmere). It also matters when the house was last reassessed. So its possible to have taxes of $10,000 or taxes of $15,000.

I would guess though, that its more likely for taxes to be under control in the future in Nassau County, because the frum population has a greater voting block and can affect the school board more than in Bergen County.

Lion of Zion said...

PROFK:

none of my friends in woodmere pay more than 10k in property taxes. all my teaneck friends pay over 10k.

TT:

"I've heard elsewhere (unverified) that schools do not allow charging those fees to a credit card, only actual tuition and thus save a few percentage points."

my son's school allows everything to be charged on credit card. but if you pay up w/o cc to get the special discount, then it only applies to actual tuition.

personally i would never pay such a large sum up front when anything could happen during the year and they would have all my money.

noam info said...

YESHIVAT NOAM, 2009-10:
Registration: $750

Tuition:
pre-k: 13,025
k-7:13,975

Per family:
building fund- 7000 in one shot or 1250 per yr for 5 years (=7500)

dinner:
850

scrip:
purchase 7K or $350 opt-out


Add it to your table!

LMNOP said...

Tuition Talk,
Thanks for compiling all this data. I appreciate you doing due diligence in requesting for written copies of tuition bills, but might I suggest that you post the numbers as given, with a * note that they are unconfirmed?

Tuition Talk said...

I will be updating this post and will note unconfirmed tuition information. Good suggestion.

Anonymous said...

Are you sure that the HAFTR $1,500 capital assessment is a one time family fee and not an annual fee? Also, HAFTR was at one point offering discounted tuition for newcomers. Are they still doing that?

Anonymous said...

By the way- update-M. Aaron- Moshe aaron, or MAYHS is now out of business as of Sept 2011.